Harry
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Posts: 133
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Post by Harry on Oct 3, 2012 21:34:00 GMT -5
Not to raise any suspicions, but Doughty signing for $5M as a RFA after the season he had seems kind of odd to me. Especially when you consider that a guy like Jamie McBain got $6.5M. Hell, he's only making $500K more than Cam Barker. I would've expected more to get him locked up.
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Post by ECFHL Commissioner on Oct 3, 2012 21:46:43 GMT -5
I'll squash this right away.
Doughty is 24 and his deal takes him right up to his UFA years which I put a high value on. He's also receiving more than current Norris Trophy winner Duncan Keith and all norris nominees.
Being an RFA, which Doughty is, and being a UFA, which Jamie McBain and others who received huge contracts are extremely different.
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Post by Capitals on Oct 4, 2012 7:00:13 GMT -5
I agree with Nick. The UFA is out the window when looking at RFA's. The offers people make for average players is laughable.
McBain offered 6.5 is a joke in itself.
Toews offered $12 mill (Chi - This isnt a knock on you, i know you had to match whoever offered the $12 mill deal)
D Sedin was offered $12 mill.
DAVID KREJCI offered $11.5 mill. Lol.
Shaone Morrisson making $6 mill. Lol.
THOSE contracts are the joke in my opinion. I think if people had some control, and some THOUGHTS on how to offer deals, people wouldnt max offer every player they see.
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Harry
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Posts: 133
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Post by Harry on Oct 4, 2012 14:45:52 GMT -5
I definitely agree that the UFA signing is a mess and players are grossly overpaid as a result, but it's difficult for me to see that a player at the age and overall rating and caliber of Doughty, with the superb season that he had, would sign at what I would consider to be a monumental bargain. If we want to make it harder to re-sign our players, I don't think that is a very good example.
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Post by LosAngelesGM on Oct 4, 2012 14:50:30 GMT -5
The main points for my offer were the following...
1- I offered a deal that wouldn't place doughty as a UFA at the end of the term.
2- I compared his stats, ratings to other top tier defensemen. I viewed salaries of D Keith and K Yandle and both make less than my offer to doughty. FYI - Yandle was just resigned last year and not one post was made about him.
3- I am never comparing my free agents to what Ufa's get on the open market. Open market offers are ridiculous and if some gms want to offer joe blow 4 years 10 mill, feel free, but I don't think everyone has to base their RFA offers to what ufas received. That just means every team will have 77-78 Ov guys who make 10 mill or more bc a few gms go nuts.
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Post by Avs on Oct 4, 2012 17:23:55 GMT -5
Open market offers are ridiculous and if some gms want to offer joe blow 4 years 10 mill, feel free Says the guy who gave Pominville $7m. |
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Post by BluesGM on Oct 4, 2012 17:47:07 GMT -5
I'll squash this right away. Doughty is 24 and his deal takes him right up to his UFA years which I put a high value on. He's also receiving more than current Norris Trophy winner Duncan Keith and all norris nominees. Being an RFA, which Doughty is, and being a UFA, which Jamie McBain and others who received huge contracts are extremely different. there just needs to be consistency. if you're going to allow a norris caliber defensman to re-sign at $5mil because no UFA years are being eaten up, thats fine, but that sets the mark for all other RFA's and not many players should be asking for more than that. it just seems a bit low for a benchmark contract, but as long as all other deals are consistent and follow suit, it's fine by me. |
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Post by ECFHL Commissioner on Oct 4, 2012 18:52:39 GMT -5
It is and will be a benchmark for 22 year old defensemen. Like I said, I'm putting a high value on UFA years because of the way our market has played out.
Doughty also just won the cup with LA and it's not crazy to think he'd want to stay there.
1/2 the teams sent offers in for 5 years and lowball offers. That's not going to work, especially if you take no time whatsoever to explain your offers and negotiate.
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Post by LosAngelesGM on Oct 4, 2012 19:24:02 GMT -5
Alex, dont you have a Norris caliber defensemen? And whats his salary?
Oh, you do. And his salary is less. So if anything, there are at LEAST two proven Norris nominees with similar ratings, similar production, but make LESS than Doughty. You preaching consistency is a false statement.
Letang out-performed Doughty Season 3 and he is rated similar and makes 5.25.
Carle out-performed Doughty Season 3, and he is less rated, but makes 4.75, which is more than Yandle BTW.
So I've now found 5 defensemen, all within 4.25 - 5.25 in salary, and 4 of them are above 80OV. If anything, thats saying the top tier defensemen are being contracted for consistently. And thats how I was basing my offer on Doughty.
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Harry
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Posts: 133
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Post by Harry on Oct 4, 2012 19:43:38 GMT -5
Why restrict comparisons to only players of the same position? The comparables should be open to all players who are within a similar age bracket and production level. Hell, look at how Doughty in his second pro contract jumped to $7M. Or Shea Weber as a RFA getting over $7.8M.
The only valid case I could see using comparables of the same position is for goaltenders. Skaters are going to look at players who play a similar role. If Doughty is just as important to a team as Kopitar, shouldn't their salaries be within the same ballpark? That's how his NHL salary was determined, his level of importance to the team.
I'm not blaming PJ for the signing, hell I tried to sign Stamkos for around $5M or so last season too and had to up my offer. But why would a player of his age, rating, and production agree to a deal that still keeps him restricted as a RFA? That's the problem the Kings ran into when they couldn't agree to terms on a shorter deal and had to pay up to get him locked up.
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